*Most relevant quote from The Four Pillars of Investment: “Performance comes and goes but expenses are forever.”, To keep things non-promotional, please use a real name or nickname(not Blogger @ My Blog Name). Mr. Money Mustache didn’t retire because he was making so much money from his blog. It’s basically like having a full-time money mogul on speed-dial. My PC advisor got upset that I wasn't interested in his spiel on tax efficient investments back when I only had 401k and roth savings, then I cancelled my "free" account with them and moved to Mint. October 12, 2013, 6:41 pm. October 12, 2013, 12:17 pm, I’m in software security, and I tend to share your view about the expected value of potentially losses. I have my emergency fund in savings. I use Mint and have no zero complaints. My secret weapon for keeping track of my investments: Vanguard’s outside account feature. Their slogans of “We don’t look for home runs”, and “You can’t beat the market by picking stocks”, are very reassuring in this regard. After five months of skepticism and trial, I have to reluctantly admit that this company is a worthwhile addition to the modern financial landscape. I got their standard >100k investor mail and tried asking this question. Their fee is slightly higher than RSP’s fee, but you get other services and more diversification (w/ international component). But you can turn them off under settings -> email preferences. Indexing purists like me raise an eyebrow at any strategy that suggests it might beat the market, but at least their principles are sound and I would not expect this strategy to differ much from overall market returns. However, it doesn’t give you the spending analyzer, which IMO, Personal Capital did a good job at. For now we’ve chosen not to use these free tools. With mint.com as with Facebook we are not the customers, we are the product. February 10, 2015, 7:01 pm. It most definitely does not store my credentials in the cloud. I don’t like to take unnecessary risks with my money, but in this case, the rate of return on using these services is high enough, and the risk low enough, that I’m fine with the risk. What if it were some standard that banking institutions provided. Their fees are fixed though; not a percentage. Great post! It is usually only available for the US and Canada. Did you have a chance to probe the security of Personal Capital? (Thanks to Brian Oberkirch for the inspiration.) And this offer only comes if you have over $25,000 of assets available to manage. Michiel When my family asks, I just encourage them to make sure that they spread large amounts of money or investments across a few different institutions so that all their eggs aren’t in one basket. At first both seemed very similar, and I’m supportive of both business approaches. New Yorker Profile on Mr. Money Mustache This piece presents living below your means as liberation rather than as deprivation, and a glimpse on MMM's personal story. What’s up with that? There will always be a significant point of vulnerability with this scheme. FutureAdvisor’s minimum, for free advice, is $10,000. I’ll continue to use both for the time being. Personal Capital does the whole strategic/lifestyle/comprehensive thing too. (8:52) How much money someone needs if they want to quit their job. All three Yodlee programs need to add the new GE Capital Bank, which is different than GE Capital Retail Bank. Giving mint.com all my financial usernames and passwords, with all the power that comes along with it, is probably just asking for trouble. But each one is missing one of the key nuts and bolts of wealth and early retirement: For several months, I’ve been using a new service called Personal Capital that addresses all of these things in a fairly motivating manner. I’ve met quite a few people this year who are great at making gobs of money, but just not motivated to do anything with it. Jim Wang Until something like that becomes available, I think I’ll stop using Mint and just buy Quicken. 1winedude Although the product links are noticeable, they are generally relevant and quite possibly useful to Mint users, so they do not bother me. I know banks advise against sharing passwords and account info – I wonder if using these services void any sort of bank “warranty” if your bank account is compromised (for any reason)? May(6) Stocks -- Part VIII: The 401K, 403b, TSP, IRA & Roth Buckets; Mr. Money Mustache; The College Conundrum; Stocks -- Part VII: Can everyone really retire a millionaire? I’ve been letting PC manage just over $100k for me since early February, in a similar try-before-I-buy scenario. than stocks? I see I can do that with Mint with a simple search so Im going with Mint for now. New and Improved: The article above was updated in August 2015 to reflect some new Personal Capital features. There’s no hand slapping admonishment for having spent that $14k on clothing and shoes. What an *sshat. My own philosophy is that in the financial world we rely on “The Safety of the Herd”. However, zooming in I was able to see the rare events that caused this anomaly (a check came in from the business, I spent 11 days in Ecuador and thus the hungriest member of the family was not at home consuming groceries, and we just happened to buy no products or gasoline last month). Because of that, this blog tends to fixate on living happily and efficiently, and the oddly magical lifestyle changes that allow you to drop your spending dramatically even while improving every area of your life. October 12, 2013, 10:15 am. While their own statistics show their funds outperforming the market slightly in recent years, I generally need to see at least a 20-year graph that includes both booms and busts before I will agree that any given strategy is giving the overall index a run for its money. ", I have three magical words for you, "OK, thanks, bye!". And he is here to tell you that early retirement doesn't only happen to Powerball winners and those who luck into a big inheritance. Vanguard, Capital One 360, Lending Club, Your 401(k), your mortgage. Any yodlee.com users out there? I plan on keeping Mint around for spending categorization purposes but Personal Capital is definitely my go-to now for anything portfolio related. Personal Capital is one of the hottest financial technology products on the market. Plex Luthor October 11, 2013, 3:58 pm. I know a lot of the r/PF’ers read your blog, and while I wholeheartedly recommend PC’s website as a Mint alternative (especially for folks with accounts Mint won’t handle but PC will), I wanted to warn them off of the investment side. It sounds like they do a variation of fundamental indexing. We allow for editing of tickers for holdings, so you can go into the account details for your investment account, holdings tab and then edit the tickers for individual holdings. However, much like MMM I feel if you are already mindful of your spending and savings, you probably already have plans in place to reduce debts and save too and do not need to a strict budget. I ignored the PC call MMM but I still have them monitoring my accounts. PC is great. October 18, 2013, 9:58 pm. Founded in 2009, the goal of Personal Capital was to provide a blend of cutting-edge technology with objective financial advice, including retirement and budgeting tools. The only reason I feel reasonably safe is that the probability of actual un-recoverable theft on a per-person basis is very rare. We used mint for years but got no actual action out of it. Like you said, I use Mint almost entirely for the “Trends”, and mostly the net income trend at that. Additionally, using these services can actually help you catch a number of financial issues. Any recent posts are shown below and make sure to check out any social media pages they might have like Twitter and Facebook. Hope that helps. The advertisers are their customers. I think you are correct, you shouldn’t have trouble finding a CFP designated fee-only financial planner to meet in-person with for the same price as the Personal Capital advisors. And what’s the alternative, keep your money under your mattress? That may be worth the switch for me. I know Mint has already saved me a $2 monthly “paper statement” fee from one of my new accounts that I didn’t realize I was paying, and a close friend found out that he has been paying for a gym membership for 2 years in a town he no longer lives in! Just picking a nit, but below $10,000, you can’t get Vanguard Admiral Shares, so the best you can do at that level in a personal account (taxable or IRA) is about 0.17% for Investor Shares of a Target Retirement Fund or Total Stock Market Fund (a few of the more conservative/income focused indexes have slightly lower expense ratios). Sadly, I don’t believe it works for folks outside the US. I used Learnvest to help me develop a financial plan/asset allocation. I suspect the answer is “privacy”, since this widget only shows the funds and share price that you’ve invested in, and not the amount of each fund that you have, but I’m not sure what that information gets me, other than warm fuzzies when it’s green, and joyous greed when it turns red right before one of my automated investments goes through. Feel free to read more on Mint’s community where plenty of users are livid by Mints decision to remove investments. Case B: The High-Earning Sensible but Oblivious Guy. I have about $65k in the market at this moment. No thanks. Which is great for convenience, but not so great for security – having one company that can access all your accounts whenever they want to. Just-Some-guy But I guess you can’t fight progress…, Dollar Flipper Herr Handlebar John Dough For a month the account linkages are broken. It sounds like this might be just what I need. Everyone around you is wasting a ridiculously huge sum of money. I don't agree with how you would manage my money. Stuart S It includes transfers from different accounts as income and it skews the numbers badly. Personally, I’m very comfortabe self-managing, but I used to work at a bank and I have an MBA. Anyway, thanks for the information. This is a good point Mrs. I have been using Yodlee-based systems for years. If you don’t mind hopping over to Reddit, I posted return details here: http://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/1oafg0/update_comparing_index_investing_to_personal/. Francisco N I like the array of data and the interface you showed in your screenshots. 2mill-4mill= .55-.65% But if you are like me and love managing your own investments, you will stick with a little basket of Vanguard admiral funds and watch over them yourself, rebalancing occasionally. September 11, 2014, 4:18 pm, Mint won’t merge with Personal Capital because they want you to use their own investment platform called Future Adviser. 2) Web-based management (wealthfront, Personal Capital, etc.) It makes my portfolio look out of whack. http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/hacked-small-businesses-often-have-no-place-turn, Sir Osis of DeLiver I’ve been using personal capital for a few months now and like MMM have been using Mint for years. Thanks for sharing your product experiences here. I work at a fee-only financial planning firm charging 1% up to $2mm that does comprehensive planning on top of asset management (low cost Dimension Funds). I am still sticking to a home made excelsheet for my spending because I haven’t found anything else working properly in the Netherlands. As John Dough already pointed out, you would be the product (read: victim), not the customer. Mr. Money Mustache is the alias of a forty-one-year-old Canadian expatriate named Peter Adeney, who made or, more to the point, saved enough money in his twenties, working as a … For example, after I first published this article, many readers came out with favorable reviews for Betterment (automatic investment in existing index funds with lower management fees, in exchange for less personalized service), so do your research before signing up with any paid financial management service. How is this useful, and why is this the only thing available to show with a widget on Android? The PC guys will tell you that their performance will make up for the cost just like all the other fund managers do, except we know 80% fail to beat the index. She was inspired by Mr Money Mustache and now lives in a trailer. That really reduces the time spent hunting for classification errors. The origins of the Mr. Money Mustache blog and Pete’s own frugal habits. I am doing the exact same thing to track my total asset allocation, and 401 Fee analysis! That isn’t really a knock on Personal Capitol, it’s just more so timing. One reason why is because FutureAdvisor gives you concrete recommendations for your brokerage and retirement accounts for free. Whereas if you use the bank’s own online banking system, and there is a security breach, etc., the bank is liable. … However, this article is a breath of fresh air to me. To hundreds of thousands of devotees, he is Mr. Money Mustache, the creator of a no-nonsense personal finance blog. Some of the PC features are nice but there is not enough to warrant a switch from Mint or – even worse – using both. Individually entering your purchases makes you think about it a lot more than if you just look back at how you spent money. like.liberation It’s free. After all, you must understand your spending and you must invest your money, so removing any roadblocks to those goals is important. Total assets of 3.7 million. Thanks for the response! PC is no more nor no less “read only” than Mint. On the other hand, I wouldn’t mind an email with a summary of my weekly spending. I also would hope that the “adviser” is a CFP and not just some series 7 broker carrying around that title. We downloaded it after reading your comment and I can already tell it will really help us kick a few lingering, anti-mustachian spending habits. You can then log in very quickly and review all your financial transactions at both the high and low levels, to see what you’ve been earning and spending. The desktop version of Personal capital has the most features and is the easiest to use. I love the graphical layout, it makes viewing what is going on w your personal finances very easy. I asked the Nibud about this, and they said that there are several online and offline solutions in the Netherlands. FinancialFairway They keep calling me and don't seem inclined to take a hint that I'm not going to give them any of my business. I haven’t invested in RSP or similar funds personally, but my impression is that they do provide the benefits of indexing, without the capitalization bias, at low management fees (well under 1%), and thus might be an interesting alternative to a traditional index funds. They actually told me indexing was bad because index funds buy high and sell low. Which is more standard, but confidence has been hurt. Hi Steve – I use both Yodlee’s Moneycenter and PC. Another Questioner Also on Trends, why do you find Mint’s trends feature more useful than our cash flow feature? In the “customize” dialogue in any spending type report, you have to be mindful of (1) which accounts you have selected on the accounts tab, (2) which categories you have selected or de-selected on the categories tab, and (3) make sure to set the drop-down box on the advanced tab to “exclude internal” for transfers. It’s hard to recognize a loss in purchasing power because the number keeps going up. You don't provide enough value to me to justify the almost 1% drag on my portfolio." While not a clear win over Mint in all areas, I feel that Personal Capital is a much better investment monitor, and works as an interactive teacher in that area as well. I’d never heard of YNAB before. http://www.investopedia.com/articles/exchangetradedfunds/08/market-equal-weight.asp. I can’t see why anyone would be so dumb and offer these businesses some of their most private details for free in return for intransparent “advice”. I get a little sick of the Bogleheads who are only concerned with cost in absence of value. October 12, 2013, 3:05 pm. The Mr. Money Mustache blog comments and forum feature robust arguments. I know you can’t time the market, but I don’t want to buy at the top again (a la 2007) and have to wait forever to get back just to even. To get a overall picture of spending analysis, asset allocation, and associated tax efficiency, Personal Capital really offers that convenience. (17:25) In terms of the security issues folks flagged: If I terminate my Mint account, will all my linked data still stay there in the cloud, or is there a way to cut off the account that would also disconnect the information? Now it takes 2 seconds to log in and see the bottom line numbers. Compromise of my banking credentials is an incredibly unlikely event with potentially devastating consequences. October 12, 2013, 11:56 am. Despite the hacking risk, I’m going to keep my account open and see how it works for my situation. He's got 12 money tips that could help you retire earlier too. ), Mr. Money Mustache But, the pay yourself first and assign a job for every dollar are not new concepts. 1 thing I did notice in the spending area was when I first signed up it had a lot of transactions placed in a “uncatagorized” category. October 12, 2013, 6:30 am. The one thing I really love about PF software like Quicken is you can “pre-enter” transactions. Regrettably, I didn’t read the fine print and deleted the old account when RBC Bank was taken over by PNC Bank, and I lost all of my past net worth info. 3) Face-to-face financial planner (most expensive). I’ve made changes just based on those analysis and my budget/savings has drastically improved. If you link your retirement accounts with other banks, Personal Capital figures out funds you are holding and how much fees they are charging you. I wish more companies did this! I’ll stick with the low cost index funds for now…. While I do find services like Mint useful, the risk is very different between using online banking in general and using these aggregation services, at least in Canada. Urban Tribe Cargo Bicycles is a brand new Denton, Texas, company selling three-wheeled, front-loading cargo bikes, similar to those used in Europe. For those who commented that they don’t want to use online money tracking software (or don’t have online choices in their country), I’d point out there is also GnuCash, a free open source program (very mustachian). HTH. Can anyone tell me whether Personal Capital allows 2 people with shared joint accounts and individual accounts (IRA, 401K etc) to set up a household profile to track net worth? sobezen However, the defensive comments from Jim do make this post seem like part of an orchestrated social media campaign to generate cross-platform buzz across the blogosphere or something. Mr. Money Mustache What soured me most to PC was the call from the adviser. They are very different from me in their approach to money, and for those people a 0.9% fee for good management is actually a good thing. I know in my case I am very slow to change banks or brokers. It is more labor intensive but given what is at stake I think it is a reasonable balance between enabling insight into my financial status and securing these valuable resources. Oh how I have tried. Just because a company like Personal Capital isn’t advertising to its user now doesn’t mean they won’t in the future. Regardless of how these credentials are stored they must at some point be available to the application that collects data from my various financial institutions. Mr. Money Mustache (Pete Adeney in real life) is a Colorado family man who retired 11 years ago at age 30 after an unexceptional 10-year engineering … Both however mean no commissions unlike most “financial advisers.”, mollyjade So I know now that I need to move my money away from the adviser which will be hard because the whole family is invested through her and they like her. Which is to say, just because their web site is a read only view of the account, does not mean much. :), Joel Farris October 12, 2013, 5:44 pm. But it has a greater focus on investment tracking and investment advice, and in fact the software sort of functions as an investment teacher. I am person in scenario A. I’m always trying new apps and things especially ones that have to do with personal finance, so I tried PC a while back. My house is paid off and I have $125,000 in CDs yielding 1% right now and another $150k in the savings account. I found it interesting that a business account in a bank is not protecting your small business! I opened the app, swiped through a few pages, and came across this little gem of an article, “ How to retire early – 35 years early .” The 3,200 word article / interview told the story of blogger Pete Adeney, a.k.a. I expected them to under-perform by their fee (1%), which would cost me $1k per year. Mint can’t seem to handle investments, investment income, cost basis, or asset allocation information to save their life. I can afford to take a few minutes (rotating my banking credentials) every month to ensure my peace of mind. Not useful when trying to really examine net worth. PC or Mint sound good but I physically can’t make myself reveal my passwords and IDs to a totally strange entity. October 11, 2013, 3:07 pm. 10 days was far, far too ridiculous for me to consider using it for anything, as my strategy involves occasionally shuffling money about. 40 minutes of "You need bonds. Your savings accounts and brokerage accounts are very much unlike a credit card account. There’s a book with a fairly good history of past (theoretical) returns as well as an explanation of why it should work, written by Rob Arnott. Oh is this timely. I like the idea of a fundamental index and it seems fairly well researched, but not quite as thoroughly proven as traditional indexes.